I've read this report and think that this information is so fascinating we need to follow it. It's you got to be a pro. And Parker brothers, Milton Bradley stand on the dock and with a tear in their eye, they wave goodbye. You've got the BUZZER. One of my learnings was trivia is for a lot of people that's an sat test and if you and if you want to do that, you know there's trivial pursuit, there's hard trivial games. 
He says rose. What's the Paprica or the that's going to say slantra, but I feel like that turns a lot of people off. So that teammate interaction, that's part of social gaming and that's that's my focus, is social gaming. They're not obligated to taste. It's a boom againcom boom again. Baby boomers are making money. What is the value that you're getting for your money? And he hates social media even as it's brought him tons of new fans and millions of new listens. It's sort of a combination. Plus knowing that you don't want to be too hard. Sure, social media might be the downfall of us all, but there's plenty of good out there, too.
You saw Djanga. You've done anything and, God bless them, they lie. You're going to get royalties like it's a record. Well, I my my problem is that I am by nature a smartass and I have never hesitated to let that side of me show through in Games. It's like that canvas that you know when you played Tri of you pursue. But let's let's hop back to your initial for a into the gaming industry, because do I have this right that you started as a real estate developer, and we're a pretty successful one, before switching into games. Published or do you license it?
But if you did ten out of ten on every single card for an hour, it's a flat line. Now that I mean it's as the legitimate question. So we're going to pass. Needs another rewrite. You've got it intact. From connecting with fans at live shows to being more vulnerable in songwriting, things aren't SO bad. Brians latest game, Boom Again, targets a totally underserved market: Boomers, or people born between 1946 and 1964. 
Well, awesome, well, Brian, I say this with no surprise because I've had so many hours of entertainment playing your games, but this was a blast. It grew up playing clue and risk and monopoly and with this new medium called television that was full of game shows. You don't want to be repetitive to what another game is. I went out and did a market research port and had that done and read it, read it again and thought, Gee, you know, I think the big game companies don't really understand what's going on with trivial pursuit. That's as high as it can be. 124: American Idol Stories and Building a Music Brand with Kate Watson, 123: How to Change the World By Doing Good with Annalisa Enrile, 122: Creative Risks, Trapped Mice, and Social Media Negativity with Will Wood, 121: Food Puns, Motherhood, and Cooking Essentials with Marie Saba.
We should get in it. Yeah, I'll allow it. I think there's a business there. I'm thinking of the last time I played in it was there's one person in particular that probably was on an actual roller coaster because they were doing and they were God nuts. Sure you know they brought out a group, brought out winning not no, they I'm trying to remember the name of it now. I don't know. So what are the activities? 
And is there a super surprising piece of feedback that you've gotten from a player, whether it was for a specific game or just like generally and games that you've tested? So I'll see if I could find it and transcend it. Yeah, there's been a few. Is it art or is it science? It's a boomer culture trivia game. So we said, but there's Zoomi there zooming with their children, their grandchildren, they're seeing each other, they're having a drink night. Love it. And and on the radio there there the news is talking about Ronald Reagan at it some remembrance of D Day from World War Two, and I thought, gi, I remember a lot about d day.
Its storytelling at its finest.
That's what I like to hear. There's a several factors that come into that. Who Do you sell it to? They're sitting in the back room amongst all those games that just didn't work. It's great and and that's so so factor that in as well. Another example from the game.
Yeah, and well then, and that's like asking it. That stimulates me to think of the rest of it. Its that instant when flavors come together and explode in your mouth. Everything that we is in that document was demographically charged and all the learnings that came from it. So we basically said, well, wait to say let's let's let's redesign the game let's just alter the play pattern a little and give everybody rules and and directions on how to play it on zoom and it took off. So they got to set her rooms. We're just not interested right now. As always, you can send me a message Joey at good people, cool thingscom. He was open to it, he was fascinated by it and while we were while I was at his home, walking around, you know, many acres out in the country. Be a good people cool thingscom. Plan on having a big inventory, but if we don't take it, it's your problem, not ours. So those were the elements that came together to say this is how we're going to build the game. So I began designing games that had nothing to do with Trivia and as a business guy, I would meet with the you know these. I mean two for two on that and I'm not even a boomer. But we always like to wrap up with the top three, and your ample experience with Board Games has introduced you to many different celebrities over the years as well. So I had purposely stayed away from Trivia. It's tough to get in. What else goes into that recipe? I think that I never wanted to take things too seriously. I was there. So I made based on what I knew was in different companies current lines and what their needs were for the next year. So it's it's really a mix between the two I like. But it has to be some many people knows, something people care about. It's the flower, the flower with the thorns. And the guy is sitting there. I didn't think that was a business model that worked and I saw there were plenty of people way more experienced who should be doing it, and so I let them.
Yet it is as a game designer, my goal is to get people to do something they don't do every day and yet have fun in the process. In fact, he was ansel Adams asked private pupil, and my friend mark happens to be one of the great joke tellers in the world. Good after it today. So you've kind of been touching on this throughout. I've already got some people in mind that I'm going to need to play this with. All these years later I got around to what is now boom again. So I wasn't interested in doing that and I didn't feel equipped to do kids games. You get to the mid S and we discover sex and run and drugs and rock and roll and we're no longer playing board games. Trivial pursuit. Well, it's, I've always said, what I do, because I focus on social interaction Games, party games.
Just pointed out this is but it was. Only I could read a contract and I looked to said no, no, no, and in the end I want to say no to every company at least once. When I when we started, the big companies were JC penny and sears and and Kmart and toys R us. It was hard to get to the first company. And if you're going to do if you're going to deal with Trivia, if you're going to ask people to remember things, then why not give them the added benefit of additional memory power? I we use that on our other podcast, parks and wrecked, for buzzing in on Trivia. Yeah, that and that's what we have here. We did not license it, we did it ourselves. Even this one's not a simple answer for you, but I think it'll help to understand it. I could have made this, but the truth is you couldn't. So I'm about to try to find examples and I'll use this one in my game taboo. The Game Business, the Board Game Business, had no experience selling things to adults. But keep in mind because this game is broken down differently, I have different favorite questions in different categories. So, in essence, this is a tool that really everyone needs, or at least one of your games that they can get that practice back with interacting with other people. Isn't an issue.
You may not recognize Brian Herschs name, but youve most certainly played one (or several) of his board games. I would say that that number one would be Dick Clark. It's a closed society. There's and art to so much of what's required. And another question I like to ask, because I say I like to put the onus of the work for this podcast on to you, is a question that you, as you were, asked more frequently and I really liked yours. Pineapple Galore Tamalitoz Pineapple flavor candy pillow filled with chili, lime and sea salt, Colored with Annatto, Spirulina Extract and Turmeric Oleoresin, Individual Pineapple Galore Tamalitoz, Five Pack Pineapple Galore Tamalitoz, 2021 Tamalitoz | All Rights Reserved. Those are your big ones. And suddenly I'm going off in a direction saying I think there's a I think there's an entertainment product, I think there's an opportunity. If you're a fan of this episode, go ahead and hit that follow button. Okay, I'll buye a receding hairline. So that's certainly a piece of how I approach Writing Games. The candies are overly sweetmore, I found my way here because Belfountain was completely overrun and I had promised the kids ice cream and I had to find an alternative. Let me let me share some of what I learned.
That's a simple key to it and I think another I know I just kind of criticize the Internet, but I think another twist to this was that you've done a lot of boom zooms with this game, where it's playing it over zoom for people that maybe are in the same room or maybe our and just needed to get away from each other. There's a lot of singing group saying excellent that, but but there's also those the little sparks, the little things that disappeared somewhere back in your brain and that you forgot were there, and you sort of noodle around a going you know, I got a hunch it might be a volkswagon beetle, and I like it that it takes you back to a time before of before the Internet, being like Oh, I can just easily look that up real quick, like making you think about that and where you you wouldn't have the answer right away back correct when you were doing that. This is what works and this is what doesn't. That's that's such a good distinction to as the social element to it, because I know I've played games where it's really not that much of a social interaction and I quickly find myself wanting to pass something else. It'd be like I just did this exercise, I didn't even enjoy it. Know I joey. She's so negative, she's so unpleasant, she's such a miserable human being, and I said because when she doesn't have a laundry list of complaints, we've succeeded. Marc Dubavoy is a Jewish guy from Mexico City, not particularly religious, speaks six languages, plays Flamenco Guitar, plays Jazz Piano, has a Ph d in nuclear physics. See, I laid those down and said metal teeth serving as pants closer. You know who Abbott and Costello are. And it hit and it went out of control. It allowed them to be part of a group and that group paradigm is wonderful in the social setting. Here I'm at my house, my buddies at another house, my wife's friend is that another house.
And sometimes it's just about sometimes it's literally just figuring something out. There's an art to the marketing methodologies, and yet those are also science. But here's an example of how deep this game goes. And you're not really selling it. Where did the idea of this come from, because this is going to lead us into a bunch of different places. It you know, it's I have to tell you I've had games that I thought were great that didn't make it. So our goal is always how do we balance those two elements? I like that. This success is about and entire generation returning to its game playing roots. I love that he's my friend and not doesn't quite fit your most famous, but most interesting for sure. You know what? Now I'm down with the the lame joke as well as you. Yea, was you know, that was a pivot. It's hysterical to watch, you know. Love it well, Brian, thank you again for taking the time to chat. It's a volkswagon beetle. So I'm finding out all this stuff about Marcel Mar so and it turns out he's a legion of Honor winner. So, naturally, Annalisa was a great host for a show like Goodniks, which explores the journey and meaning of doing good in the world. I've had games that I knew were great from the minute that they were done. He's created outburst, supers, categories, taboo, among so many others, and he's at it again with his latest board game, boom again, a pop culture game aimed at boomers that I'm not a boomer, but I had a blast just with a couple of the questions while we're chatting through it. Are you answered one of my questions just with that of can people under roughly fifty five years old still enjoy this game? Dick Clark and I met after my first game. We could have played that game without the Buzzer, but everybody loves the BUZZER. Along comes the the difficulties of the economic downturn in the mid S, and I mean it's awful. I know I'm in trouble. But what else goes into the success?
How did that never occurred? It relative affluence. How does this get sold at retail? I mean it's surprising. It's the same product over and over. Good people cool things as a podcast feature and conversations with entrepreneurs, writers, musicians and other creatives. There's a lot to this business and once we got there, once we had a success, it became now I understand the recipe. If I ask you things, for the things we talked category, what was the name of the Jetson's dog and where did George Walk? And in fact, my parents generation, they were a card playing generation. Traffic was slow and I'm late for a dinner party at my house. It's an essay tale, like you're saying. They they beat the hell out of me. In the case of taboo, we had built the game, we knew exactly what it was going to cost, we had the title, you know, we already grabbed the copyright in the trademark. It was the same game, it just it just had a different name. If I said to you name ten pieces of silverware and you named them, you wouldn't care. You keep the inventory. Nobody's got any money.
If you make something too silly, that the competitive ones aren't happy, if you make something too competitive, than casual gamers aren't necessarily satisfied. It's a tougher environment than it was early on. If you were staring down a legend like Lionel Richie, how do you think you'd respond? Yeah, I agree. There's the science of cost engineering, there's a science of demographics. And I had a list and I walked in the House and to deflect my wife from killing me upon my entry, I turned to everybody and said tell me ten things about the battle of the bulge, and they all started yelling out snow, Panzers, Germans, you know, yeah, patent, and they said what are we doing, Brian? On the famous Abbey road album cover, beetles are crossing the street. This was beyond his comprehension and he he wanted to put his makeup on before he got in front of the electronic cameras and I had to tell him that it can't see you. Ip, by the way, was a term that didn't exist then. People are loving it and now you've got to go at it and you have your biggest decision to your self. There's so much of baby boomer experience that you you have had the same experience. It is a it is self published. If you do make it too hard, then it's not a fun game to play. That's how I wound up doing business with all of these companies. I've got one right, I'll get in so much trouble here. Let me give you a little bit of background, because it'll explain how boom again happened. Wow, it was crazy, and so we looked and said, well, this success is not about Trivia. So you've got the Buzzer, you you start writing the material, you do the test plays, you see what's working. During the depression of deck of cards was entertainment for a whole family. It's why we moved to team play, because teams helped people who were shy, people who were who lacked the same bravado or confidence. I've had grains that I thought were okay that made it modestly. I have the chance to stay at his home out outside Paris and he was he could not understand that I'm taking him to do something, that we're going to put a suit on him with little metallic balls in the computers going to watch where those balls go and we will permanently, forever have his motions and someday they may be dressed like a like a grizzly bear, but they'll be his motions. But what makes for a successful boom again zoom game? There is something very nice to feel the fresh tug and pull of something that's old and familiar, like playing games, but it's but it's new again. It's just it's just work. We're talking food puns, the cooking utensils you need for your kitchen essentials, and how motherhood can open up more creative thinking. That's right. We just you know, we think this is a negative sort of title and this buzzing thing is just sort of dumb and we just don't think this game's ever going to be a success. So I you know, the cuman that that is necessary to board game success. And for now let's hop into the conversation. Adding a business to Yelp is always free. We gave them the rights to produce just the board game. Would you ever release it independently? Okay, we'll set will set you up for success with this one, because it's it's pretty bad. That was never our plan. She was a a regular test player and guys on my team would would grieve when they knew she was coming in and they say, why do you keep calling her back? Go ahead, try our little Pineapple flavor candy pillow and give yourself that moment of flavor fabulous your tastebuds deserve. Will Wood isn't like most musical artists. I really enjoyed the chance to share this stuff. Here's a game that is has a very wide but not very deep knowledge base, sort of like a liberal arts education, and it strikes this enormous generation at just the right moment when they want to stay home. In this episode, Kate shares some of her top stories from her American Idol experience, some of the worst experiences in her life, her top tips for building a successful music brand, and why it's important to always give your all in any situation. And was the plan when you were developing this initial game? Today's guest you might not know his name, but you certainly know his work. But once you have the game idea and you can you can take a game that you've created, if you want to walk us through this.